Muhamed Veliu: Mr. Ambassador, first of all, thank you very much for this interview on Top Channel. I'd like to start by asking, the President of the EU Commission Ursula von der Leyen during her visit in Tirana said that from the EU Growth Plan Albania will get 920 million Euros. Can you please explain how that will be delivered in Albania and how it will be used?  

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: Let me take a step back a little bit because the visit of President von der Leyen was not just about the Reform and Growth Plan, although what you said is accurate. Her visit, as I told her, took place at a moment when the stars are aligned for Albania. We just opened the real negotiations, the negotiations on the fundamentals cluster, which are extremely important in the accession process. And we have just adopted a Reform Agenda of Albania and other Western Balkan countries, which is the condition for starting the funding through the Reform and Growth Facility and therefore benefiting from those 900 and odd millions that you were referring to. And of course, the visit also took place at the moment when we inaugurated the academic year of the College of Europe. It's symbolic, but I think it's very important. It's another element of this alignment of stars that at the moment is happening here in Albania. And so I'd like to speak first about the accession negotiations, because at the end of the day, the Reform and Growth Plan is meant to accelerate and support the accession process. And the opening of the fundamental cluster means that Albania now has to really get serious about reforms in crucial areas, be it the consolidation of the justice reform of 2016, and be it the fight against corruption. And then we really have to look at the preventive side, look at the vulnerable sectors and see how we can address those situations which are conducive to corruption. Look at the checks and balances in the country and ensure that each institution can perform its duties in an independent way and that the independence is respected. So this process means that there can be no further hesitations. When a law is discussed in the parliament, in the Assembly of Albania, the parameter, the goal, the objective, the yardstick has to be EU standards, EU acquis. There can be no beating about the bush and saying we need more time to adjust or to take on certain standards. That's the objective. Because that's the will of the Albanian people. That's what they want to see happening. And the EU has responded to this with a very concrete offer. The offer is that we can open all the chapters by the end of 2025. It's ambitious, but it's possible. But it means that really all the resources, energies and attention has to be focused on that goal. And there has to be clear political consensus behind it. The Reform and Growth Plan was also an answer of the European Union to this call for accelerating the integration of the Western Balkans into the EU. And the logic it has is that it wants on the one hand to allow the countries of the region to start benefiting from certain aspects of the single market ahead of the membership. So it's a good way of preparing yourself to then sustaining the competition that you're exposed to once you're part of the single market. But it also offers them the financial means to introduce those reforms that ensure that the economy can sustain the pressure. And this is where the 920 millions come along. But it's not a blank check. It's money that will be paid once Albania has fulfilled every precise conditions. These are public. The Reform Agenda has been consulted on people and it should now be published in its final form. These are very concrete engagements taken by the government in four areas basically: human capital, business environment, digital and green transition, and rule of law and good governance. And this will have a positive impact also on the life of Albanian citizens. So there will be a first payment that will be kind of an initial check to kick off the reforms. And then, twice a year there will be payments which are linked to the fulfilment of specific conditions. Let me also say one thing: that with the start of the real negotiations now, Albania no longer will have to show determination in pursuing the reforms, but will also be subject to much more scrutiny, closer scrutiny by Brussels. And when I mean Brussels, I don't mean just the EU. I mean also the EU Member States. Because you know that at the end of the day, the decision on whether a country can join the EU or not is a decision which is taken by the 27. And so for that, we really need to ensure that the performance is consistent, that there are no contradictions, that there are no choices which could be criticised in the light of what is the EU acquis. 

Muhamed Veliu: Mr. Ambassador, this 920 million, how is going to be managed? Who's going to manage this amount of the money, Albanian government or through projects of the EU?  

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: No, it's through the Albanian government. Let me say, you know, the total amount of the Reform and Growth Plan is 6 billion Euros, 2 billion are grants and 4 billion are concessional loans. So it's a mix. And half of the money will go through the Western Balkan Investment Framework. So this is money for big projects, big infrastructural projects, but also sometimes for investment in human capital. So, everything which has to do with education, skills, vocational training. Because if you want a prosperous economy, it's not just a question of infrastructure, it's also a question of software, let's say. And the software is, you know, the skills that people have. So this will be paid into the Albanian budget. And we will be monitoring the implementation through a number of indicators and through the fulfilment also of the conditions which are in the Reform Agenda.  

Muhamed Veliu: Mr. Ambassador, you just mentioned the ambition for opening all the chapters until 2025. But what is the mood in Brussels about Albania to start opening other chapters in coming months?  

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: I think Member States are open. But, you know, they have to be convinced that Albania is ready for it. The next one could be cluster six, which is about external relations. And there I think everybody knows how aligned Albania is with EU common foreign security policy. I've witnessed it myself in New York when I was at the United Nations. I saw how Albania was acting like a third Member State of the European Union in the Security Council. So I think that will probably be an easy step forward. For the rest, we'll have to see. Albania will have to come up with a convincing argument that they are ready to start negotiations on those particular chapters. They will be judged by their merit, not because of anything else. 

Muhamed Veliu: Mr. Ambassador, EU Commission is giving a good review, if we can say that, about the Albanian government. First chapter was open from Growth Plan. As we mentioned, Albania will get 920 million Euros. But the opposition has a radically different reading of the Albanian reality, considering SPAK a criminal organization, serving on behalf of PM Rama, with three opposition members, one in house arrest and two in prison, asking and asking again for civil defiance. What is your evaluation on this?  

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: Well, first of all, let's start with the positive things, because I'm a positive person. There is undoubtedly, and this is quite rare, there is undoubtedly cross-party support for EU accession. This is not a prerogative of the Socialist Party or the Democratic Party. Everybody thinks this is the plan A, and everybody knows that there is no plan B. And that makes my job, for example, extremely exciting, to be honest. And that's why I love it. You are indeed right in saying that there are different readings of the situation, let's say. But when the European Commission publishes its evaluation of the state of play in Albania, and the new annual report will come out tomorrow, it looks at the whole of society. It's not just the government, it's Albania that we are assessing, let's say, the performance of Albania and all its institutions. So I would resist an interpretation that we are being good with the government, not good with the opposition. We are assessing Albania as a state system. I am aware of the position of the opposition. I have expressed myself sometimes opinions regarding some of their complaints, with regard, for example, to the Constitutional Court. What for me, however, is a red line is when they start undermining or questioning the justice reform of 2016. For us, that reform was key in starting the process of negotiation with Albania, and that cannot be questioned. You know, I never comment on individual judicial cases. It's not my job, really. I think that justice should be allowed to take its course. I am confident of the system that was put in place in 2016, and of course, it was revolutionary. You know, the whole thing, even the vetting of magistrates is still ongoing. Hopefully, it will be completed very soon. But it was a revolution for Albania. You have to allow it to consolidate. You have to allow it to bring fruits. And if there's anything that we should be doing now, is strengthen that reform, is deepen it. It's not starting to question its principles. The architecture that was put in place, that ensures that the judicial system is independent of the parliament and government, so is independent of the political system, is absolutely key for the future of Albania. And, you know, what comforts me is to see that, according to polls that have been done recently, the trust of Albanians in the justice system is increasing. And it's absolutely key. If people don't have trust in the institutions, in particular in judicial system, they just leave. Because I don't think that young Albanians leave simply because they can't find a job. The economy is doing relatively well, there are jobs going. But they don't feel that the system as it is allows them to develop, allows them to achieve their ambitions, simply based on their merits. They think that the system is actually a system which is corrupt. So the role of the judiciary here is absolutely essential.  

Muhamed Veliu: Several months of cooperation between the Socialist Party and the opposition, again, the parliament has entered a new chapter of problems. The current situation in the Albanian parliament, do you think it has consequences to the EU integration process?  

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: The reason why I allowed myself to comment on, let's say, the relationship between political forces in Albania is precisely this. Because the accession process, as I say it very often, is not a technocratic one. It's not something that is negotiated by experts in Brussels. It's a societal change. It really requires fundamental reforms. That's why we call this cluster “fundamentals”, because it's really about the foundations of society. And to me, but not just to me, for Brussels, it's important when you discuss these reforms, that all viewpoints are represented, that all viewpoints are discussed around the table. So the absence of the opposition is indeed a problem. And that's something that I have discussed several times, also with some representatives of the opposition, calling on them to engage and to be part of the discussion, because we need to have them. I also told the government that they need to be inclusive and transparent. They need to make sure that this process is one that is owned not just by the government or by the majority, but by everybody, all political forces and also civil society, business and all the actors in Albanian society. 

Muhamed Veliu: Ambassador, you rightly said earlier, you do not comment on the individual cases about the justice system in Albania. But how do you see the latest result produced from the Special Prosecutor’s Office, at the same times, the attacks constantly to the head of this institution, Mr. Altin Dumani?  

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: So you know that I don't comment, so why do you ask me to comment? But no, I'm joking. I will not comment. All I can say is that if there is one factor that has impacted, let's say, the assessment of the situation in the rule of law sector by the European Union, is precisely the results which are being achieved by SPAK. And as I said, I think we have to allow SPAK to work. We should absolutely not tolerate personal attacks against some of the representatives of these independent justice institutions. And we should actually protect them. And that's definitely my position here.  

Muhamed Veliu: I have been told that during a meeting with donors and the Head of SPAK, Mr. Altin Dumani, you have said, quote, SPAK is playing a key and crucial role for Albania to become EU member. Can you please elaborate a bit further on your declaration about this?  

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: Well, it's quite clear that one of the requirements coming from the EU is to have a solid track record in terms of prosecution cases against high-level corruption cases here in Albania. And so the fact that SPAK is starting to do that is absolutely a positive sign. It's a sign that the reform is working and is achieving its fruits. 

Muhamed Veliu: And my last question. Mr. Fatmir Xhafa, Head of the Special Commission for Good Governance and against Corruption, had a press conference when he said he didn't rule out the possibility of constitutional changes if experts of this commission will recommend so. What can you make of this?  

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: Now, you know that we decided to participate offering some expertise to the Commission in order to guide them and support them in their discussions. And one of the clear conditions for this offer was that the Commission would not call into question the current constitutional architecture. And when I talk about constitutional architecture, I mean the current situation that sees the justice system being completely independent from the legislative and the executive. That's something that is not negotiable. 

Muhamed Veliu: Mr. Ambassador, thank you very much for your answers on this interview.  

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: You're very welcome. Thank you very much. 

Muhamed Veliu: Thank you again.