Merita Haklaj: We are in “Every corner” with the European Union Ambassador in Tirana. Mr. Gonzato, thank you for accepting the invitation and being on A2CN today.

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: It's my pleasure, thank you very much for inviting me. 

Merita Haklaj: I previously made an introduction of what Albania has gone through in the last 34 years of democracy. Maybe we don't have the same emotions as 34 years ago, but I would like to get a first impression from you, because you are not only the EU Ambassador in Albania, but you also come from Italy, the neighbour country that faced the first wave of the Albanian migration after the fall of communism. How do you find Albania today, as we in [accession] negotiations with the European Union? 

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: I'm glad you mentioned the fact that I'm also Italian, because that's very much how I feel here. It's a huge privilege to be representing the European Union at such an important stage in the relations between Albania and the European Union. But it's also great to be Italian. The way in which Albanians look at Italy has actually almost reconciled me with my country. When you leave, you become more critical of the country you come from. So, I was not in Italy, I had already left Italy at the time when the first wave of emigrants left Albania. But I do remember the events, the sad events actually, and the shock also of seeing people so desperate, so poor, looking for and wanting to be part of Europe and to join Europe. So, being here now, after so many years, and seeing how Albania has changed, and seeing how during this year that I've spent, things have evolved even further, and how the prospect of joining the EU is now real, it's become really real, it's for me a huge, huge comfort, and it makes me very happy, because it makes me feel that I'm contributing to something that Albanian people really want. What I've been saying recently to people, because I know you've been waiting a long time, and people start getting a little bit... 

Merita Haklaj: Exactly, Ambassador, 34 years seem a long period of time to us, but to others it’s may be not so long. But we've had a migration wave before the liberalisation of visas and after the liberalisation of visas.  Now that you're here, have you come up with an idea of what we're not doing right, in order to keep our citizens, the young people and professionals here? 

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: Well, you know, in a way, I think it's good that people travel. I think it's good that Albanians go out and experience other European countries, see things from a different viewpoint, because I think it makes them richer, wealthier, mentally and intellectually. They acquire skills that they might not be able to acquire here. But indeed, the problem is that they should come back. They should bring this wealth of knowledge back to Albania, particularly at this time, because I think this is the time when Albania needs skilled people, professional people that can help Albania make progress in the reforms and everything that needs to be done in order to join the European Union. People will say, well, you know, there aren't enough jobs, or the jobs are not qualified enough.  I see it differently. I think that one problem is education. The quality of education in Albania has to improve. That's why recently we've improved the Erasmus programme.  You know, it's about exchanges between students. Now it also promotes partnerships between universities in the European Union and universities in Albania, so that young people who want to get, you know, good education do not need necessarily to go to Italy, France, Germany, Austria, whatever. They can have it here because some of the courses that are taught in Milan or in other cities in Europe are also taught here. So that's one thing.

The second thing is I think also the health system has to improve because for some people it's also a concern that they don't get the necessary health services that they would get in other European countries. And the third thing, which I think is even more important, is trust, trust in the institutions. And that's where the whole rule of law element comes into play. It's not by chance that with the Reform and Growth Plan that we have launched now to really boost economic growth in Albania, one of the pillars is specifically about the rule of law because investors will not come to Albania unless they are confident that the whole system is fair, that their interests and their rights will be protected, that there is no corruption and so on and so forth. It's the same thing with young people.  I've been spending a lot of time in the past 12 months with young people because I think it's their future after all. I'm an old man, but I think the membership in the European Union is for them. And so I was telling them, you know, aren't you excited because this is the time where young people can really play a role in a country. In Italy I’ve always felt that older people were always having the most important roles. I was always too young to do anything.  But here, I don't think so. And they were saying, yeah, no, I don't trust the system, I think, unless you know people you don't get a job, you don't get the position.

So we need to restore in them the trust that if they're skilled, if they have the right education, if they are committed and motivated, they will make a career and they will fulfil their ambitions. That's, I think, the most important element to keep people here. 

Merita Haklaj: Yes, I understand. Mr. Ambassador, as you mentioned the Growth Plan, Albania is expected to benefit approximately 922 million Euros until 2027 and according to the same document the country is expected to benefit 76.70 million Euro within this year. When is this disbursement expected considering that December is ending?

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: I feel that this Reform and Growth Plan is a completely new thing.  You know, it was really the answer that the European Union provided to the region and in particular also the Prime Minister of this country to the call for increased support in order to fill the gap, you know, the economic gap that there is between the region and the European Union. Because otherwise, if you join the European Union and your economy is not sufficiently strong, you will not be able to withstand the competition from other countries. So it was quite, you know, from such a veteran as me, I've never seen anything decided so quickly in my life in the European Union. It normally takes longer. It took a year, basically, the whole legislative process. So everything is new. And everything is new also from the Albanian side. So unfortunately, I don't think that we will be able to disburse the first rate already this year. It will be early 2025. But that's merely because we have to respect the local procedures. We have also our procedures. So it's a question of just putting that into place. But these 900 and odd million Euros that you were referring to are indeed foreseen for Albania. But it's not like, you know, they're guaranteed. They're linked with the Reform Agenda. The Reform Agenda is a huge document, 250 pages. You can actually read it quite easily because there are also tables that say very clearly what needs to be done and when. And these are very concrete actions. They're very concrete targets. And each target has a price. I know it sounds a little bit utilitarian and transactional, but it's really like this. So if you, for example, if you set up the Asset Recovery Office, you know, there's going to be a certain amount of money which is given to Albania.  And in a way, it's a way of paying and compensating for the cost of creating all these structures, institutions, strengthening.  For example, there's a whole chapter which is about human capital. So it answers a little bit the topic that I was referring to before. It's a question of improving the provision of education, the quality of education through training for teachers, for vocational training, and so on and so forth. So all this money is linked to the achievement of concrete objectives. And it will be assessed regularly, but every six months there will be a new disbursement based on the performance of the country. 

Merita Haklaj: Always based on the performance. Mr. Ambassador, in the meeting you had with Prime Minister Rama, the Speaker of the Assembly and the Head of the Anti-Corruption Commission, as we named it, the Commission for Good Governance, you strongly emphasised that the reforms are those that the European Union sees, not just as written, but as implemented and effective for the country. Do you have any concerns that we can maybe stop only at the legislative framework of making reforms, but not their implementation as we move towards the European Union? 

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: No, the point I was making is that it’s not necessarily doubting that these reforms are going to be implemented. I just want to make it clear, it’s not simply a tick of the box exercise, it’s not simply a question of adopting legislation or adopting regulations. And then thinking, OK, we've done it. That's why the Reform Agenda looks really at outputs, not merely at simple, let's say, actions that are not then reflected in actual policies. And if you look at the country report that we publish every year, it really tries, and the Prime Minister, by the way, is the first to say this is a very objective and fair portrayal of a country. It really tries to look at the way in which the whole system works and the way in which it achieves the results which are intended. So it was important for me to underline that after the adoption of regulation, there has to be the necessary follow-up in terms of financial means, so the budget has to be consistent with the priorities that have been identified from a legislative viewpoint. There has to be the earmarking of the necessary human resources and skills, and there has to be also a track record. So we need to see that those institutions or those procedures that have been put in place achieve results. That's why, for example, if you have the Asset Recovery Office, fine, but then we have to see this office clearly and actively tracing assets of people who are convicted and seizing them, and then ideally, that's what I like about it, perhaps allocating them for social services, giving them back to the community that in a way was deprived of that wealth because of the corrupt practises.

Merita Haklaj: Corruption and organised crime are the main problems in our country and they are the main issues that we need to address in the cluster of fundamentals for which we have started the negotiations.  The European Union is constantly asking to have a clear record with punishment indicators. Recently, we have seen results from SPAK, indicting high-ranking officials and politicians, who may be connected to crime and corruption. Some are convicted, some are under arrest.  There is a concern, Mr. Ambassador, that the justice we see in terms of this legal structure is not reflected among the citizens. What do you expect and what do you think from contacts with the justice representatives? How much time do we have that justice is not delayed for the citizens due to the many files in the courts? 

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: Thank you for saying that, I do try to be clear as much as possible, as much as diplomacy allows me. But indeed, as you said, this is a merit-based process and clearly democracy, rule of law are at the centre of the process itself and that's why we start negotiations by opening the cluster of fundamentals. So these issues of fighting against corruption, justice, fundamental rights are at the heart of the whole negotiation. Indeed, as you said, there's been a lot of attention on what SPAK is doing. And I wouldn't say that citizens have not appreciated what SPAK is doing. I think we have seen in recent polls that the trust in the justice system has increased and the understanding also that justice institutions are no longer exposed as they were before to political influence and political meddling. I think that's fundamental in order to restore citizens' trust in the state and in the institutions. And as you said also, some of the investigations carried out by SPAK are now bearing fruit. It's not my habit to comment on individual cases, so I will not. But clearly there is an expectation that this will lead also to convictions and so on and so forth. Because what matters is that we need to encourage citizens to lower their threshold of tolerance. I also come from a country where corruption is an issue. But I think things have changed over the years also through the membership of the European Union because the level of tolerance towards corruption has decreased. People say, no, it's my right to have certain services. Why should I pay if I need medical treatment? Or why should I pay if I want to pass an exam at the university? And this is petty criminality, petty corruption. But there's also, of course, the fact that they see that there are projects that are absorbing a lot of public money and then the result is not what was expected, public works and so on and so forth. So I think that has an impact on citizens. But I agree with you that we also need to pay more attention on ordinary justice, the justice of every day. And I know that the vetting that took place, the process of basically checking the integrity of magistrates have resulted in a huge decrease in the population working for the justice system and therefore an increase in the backlog. The vetting process is now ending. We have started a programme that is in support of the School of Magistrates so it's trying to increase the capacity of the School of Magistrates to produce new judicial staff, competent, trained up to European standards that can replace the population that was vetted out, so to speak, so that we can catch up as quickly as possible. We are also helping the high judicial institutions put in place the case management system, the integrated case management system. This is a digitalised system that will allow the institutions to manage the judicial work in a digitalised way, in a much more efficient way and also in a way that guarantees the independence of the judiciary. So we are taking a series of measures in support to the justice system that should indeed respond to the expectations of the ordinary citizens that you were talking about because I do recognise that that needs to improve as well. 

Merita Haklaj: Speaking of vetting, the vetting bodies excluded from the system hundred of judges and prosecutors. Their term is now ending. Mr. Ambassador, do you think that the Albanian judicial bodies that should now take the competences of the vetting bodies may not have their capacities to do the process as they should?  I say this because a few days ago I heard the Head of the Special Prosecution Office, Mr. Altin Dumani, expressing a serious concerns when he said that we will deal with the assets of those who have been excluded from the vetting process, but those corrupt judges and prosecutors who may have passed the vetting process are also a concern to us. Is this concerning for you? These are two questions in one, more or less.

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: I think it is a very appropriate question. And indeed it is something that we are discussing with the Albanian authorities, with the independent justice institutions, the High Judicial Inspector, and so on. Because we do need to ensure that after this revolution, because the vetting was really quite a disruptive but necessary measure, we need to have a system in place that regularly ensures the integrity of judicial staff. So definitely this is something that needs to be looked at and for which we need to take measures. We are extending our full support to the independent justice institutions in doing that. What is important is that when we talk about accountability of judicial staff, we need to combine that with independence. So what we need to achieve is that the judicial institutions have their own internal mechanisms that ensure the accountability of judicial staff. I don't see this accountability happening in relation to the other two elements or the other two pillars of a state, so the legislative, the parliament and the executive. So we need to help the independent judicial authorities put in place the necessary mechanisms. There are also other agencies that can help. HIDAACI, for example, is the agency that should regularly check the assets of civil servants. So there are a number of players that can play their role in that respect. But this is definitely an important aspect. 

Merita Haklaj: Do you have a comment for the accusations to the Head of SPAK by the leaders of the opposition? Sali Berisha is free and facing justice in a free state, Ilir Meta is in prison, and Fatmir Mediu is also involved in a process. There are former MPs, both from the left and right, and former mayors who have their own issues with the justice. But the opposition is accusing SPAK as politically captured and Prime Minister Rama of guiding SPAK’s movements. As a diplomat of the European Union that was one of the initiators of the justice reform and persisted on it, alongside the US, what message do you have for this, both for the politicians and the justice? 

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: As you said yourself there are mayors from the left and mayors from the right who are indicted, who are investigated. I don’t see a particular political bias in the way in which SPAK operates. I have met Mr. Dumani; he is a man of high integrity. He is doing his job, he doesn’t seek the limelight, and he is not looking for notoriety. He's simply doing his job. And as I said before, I think we should allow them to do their job. And of course, it has to be done within the rule of law. They have to respect the procedures and so on and so forth. That's all clear. So I don't really want to comment insinuations that SPAK is politically steered. All I can say is that the justice reform introduced safeguards that protect the judicial institutions from political interference. I don't see how the way in which SPAK operates could be controlled by the government. That's all I can say. 

Merita Haklaj: For example, there is a claim from the opposition, Mr. Ambassador, that SPAK will have to act in due time about electoral crimes. We recently witnessed a former Socialist MP who was arrested and one of the serious charges against him is for electoral corruption. What would be your message to SPAK prosecutors in this case as we go towards the elections, to act in relation to electoral crimes? Electoral processes in Albania have always been objected and fairly so, as also can be seen in the OSCE/ODIHR recommendations that have not been addressed.

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: Well, there are some recommendations that are part of the whole accession process, screening process, and they are about increasing even further the independence of the judicial system, increasing the resources, the capacity, for example, to conduct financial investigations in an effective way. So, what you say, I think, is an indication that indeed SPAK is facing a huge workload and that we should not forget that this is a young institution. They've just started. We are going to celebrate on Friday, I believe, the five years of SPAK being in office, operating. So we need also to give some time to these new institutions to consolidate themselves and achieve the results which are expected. I'm sometimes worried that the expectations that people have towards SPAK are a bit disproportionate also to the capacity of SPAK. Sometimes, I see people referring to SPAK cases that should go to the ordinary justice, for example. So, it's as if they're going to save everything and everybody. So SPAK has a specific mandate that is addressing corruption and organised crime. I think they've achieved incredible results also in the area of organised crime. We don't talk about that sufficiently. They've established really excellent cooperation with European law enforcement agencies, with Europol, but also with internationals, with Interpol, with agencies in South America for the drug trafficking. So I think they are doing quite a lot, to be honest. We just have to give them the time. And, of course, it's also a question of consolidating their work practises, achieving the level of professionalism that they need.  I'm really glad, for example, that the Deputy Director of NBI, the investigators, is now appointed, that they can develop now this judicial police, because that will also increase the capacity of SPAK to investigate quickly and effectively cases that are referred to it.

Merita Haklaj: Mr. Ambassador, I focused on the elections because they are indicators of democracy and they are included in the fundamental cluster. And, secondly, in 2021, the US Ambassador and the European Union Ambassador had to travel to regions where the organised crime affects the elections result, even with political connections, and they had to give strong messages. There was a perception that something was happening there, and in fact something happened in Elbasan, unfortunately. For these cases justice needs to say its word in due time. I mentioned Mr. Çyrbja’s case but there are a lot of files of electoral crimes that were not investigated and now their time has passed. 

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: No, I see your point, and you know, I was not aware that my predecessors actually travelled to the regions, and this is not really my style, I think there is the ODIHR, the Office for Democracy and Human Rights of the OSCE, that is probably going to conduct an observation of the elections, and I think their job is to ensure that these happen under the best circumstances. They don't just come for the Election Day, they come way before it, so they have ample opportunity to check what's going on and report it, so I would definitely rely on their findings. I also, like you, regret the fact that the recommendations of ODIHR from previous elections have not been followed up. There are a number of issues regarding party financing, but also use of public resources for electoral purposes that need to be looked into. I had conversations with the President of the Central Electoral Commission to see what they can do regardless of the willingness of the legislator to introduce changes, and I hope that the Commission will do its best to try and address these concerns, because it's important that the trust of citizens in the democratic system is safeguarded. If we go back to the trust that I was referring to at the beginning when you were asking me, what can we do to keep people in Albania? They have to have trust in the system, they have to know that fundamentally, there might be cases, but fundamentally the process is integral, it's fine, it's fair, and for that we all need to be vigilant. It's not by chance that in the country report for 2024 we refer to the fact that the recommendations of ODIHR need to be followed up. This is something that I raise regularly with my counterparts in the Parliament. 

Merita Haklaj: Obviously. Let’s focus a bit on the justice institutions that you said we should trust and it is good to trust them in any case, as they try to improve and provide justice to the citizens. But let’s focus on the Constitutional Court, Mr. Ambassador. Two issues just the last week. The Venice Commission gave the opinion requested by the

Speaker of the Assembly regarding the mandate of MP Olta Xhaçka and clearly the opinion, regardless of how the parties read it, says that the decisions of the Constitutional Court are mandatory for implementation for everyone and this right has been recognised by the country’s Constitution. How do you see the reading that both parties made of this opinion, trying to find that part that suits them more individually, and what is your position on this, Mr. Ambassador?

What should politics, the Assembly, and the MPs do in the face of a decision of the Constitutional Court?

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: Yes, indeed, that’s quite a topical issue at the moment. You will have noticed that in the country report for 2024 and in the Council conclusions, so a document adopted not by the European Commission but by the EU Member States, there is a clear reference to the need to abide by the Constitutional Court rulings. So this is definitely an issue that needs to be looked at very carefully. You yourself referred to the Venice Commission opinion, and I think it does state the principle of constitutional loyalty. The rest it is for the Albanian authorities to decide. But I think we need to restore clarity and we need to restore the constitutional balance.

Merita Haklaj: I understand, and the second point, Mr. Ambassador, regarding the Constitutional Court was that on the same day, the Head of the Constitutional Court stated that it was unclear when her mandate ends, while the Supreme Court, which selected her for that position, clearly says that the end of her mandate is in March of the coming year, in 2025. How do you see this position of the Head of the Constitutional Court, or any member of the Constitutional Court, it may not be the Head. But there is also such a situation in the Constitutional Court that it seems as if the members are playing some kind of game with their mandates. Have you seen this situation with concern? We are talking about a court that was totally annihilated by the vetting and now with its new members is creating some kind of mistrust, at least that is the perception among the public opinion.

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: Again, I’m not a lawyer, let alone a constitutional lawyer, but I do have some concern, it’s true. Let me just point out a couple of things. In the Constitution there are two provisions that indeed are in contrast with each other or there is a tension there that need to be clarified. One says, every three years you have to appoint three judges. Why? I think the idea was to avoid that you concentrate the appointment of too many judges in one particular moment. It’s to ensure diversity, also perhaps there is a change of the president, there is a change of the government, whatever. So that’s the logic of one, which again is to contribute to the independence of the Constitutional Court. Then you have the nine year mandate. That’s also is important, because if you have a mandate of two years you’re already thinking, what’s my next job, you might want to look for favours, so also for the independence of the judges, the 9 years is important. So, there is two, and it is difficult to reconcile them, I agree, and that’s why the Constitution talks about a temporary period where people were having short term mandates. It’s super complicated. I spent hours and hours trying to understand it, but at the end of the day it’s not my job. The first thing that I think created problems is that one of the three appointing authorities, you know it’s the Parliament, it’s the President of the Republic, and the High Court. One of them gave an interpretation and said that the mandate is the prevailing provision and that’s why when Elsa Toska resigned they calculated the mandate over the nine years instead of - as was foreseen, so to speak, by some at least, or the expectation - ending in 2025. They have different arguments, they say no, the nine year mandate has to be respected, there was no expiry date in the appointment of Mrs. Toska, if we now appoint somebody for three months, what’s the point, etc. It’s not for me to judge but there was no consultation between the three. And so, what we have now is a rift between the appointing authorities. The appointing authorities are three institutions and they should coordinate. The other thing is the specific case of the President of the Constitutional Court which is a specific case because it is also actually written in the Constitution. It says that the mandate should terminate in 2025. Why? Because they wanted to align the appointments in order to make this three-plus-three -plus-three year system work. I think, what is missing is an interpretation of the Constitution. Who gives an interpretation of the Constitution is the Constitutional Court. That’s what we need, we need clarity. I don’t think it is necessary for the Venice Commission or any other external bodies to interpret the Albanian Constitution. It was written by Albanians and Albanians should interpret it. That’s my modest, individual opinion.

Merita Haklaj: And it could have been a simple solution by Mrs. Zaçaj herself by convening the Constitutional Court.

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: It’s not for me to say but I think we need clarity, we need clarity because I myself, as an ordinary citizen, if I read the Constitution I don’t really know how it can work, the nine years, the three-plus-three-plus-three, so we need to have an interpretation.

Merita Haklaj: We are back and we are having a conversation with the Ambassador of the European Union in Tirana. Mr. Gonzato, to focus a little bit on the Constitutional Court. As I told you before, we have a court which was almost annihilated by the vetting. Only the Head of the court remained on duty to keep the courtroom open and now we are having this debate about when the mandate of one or the other is ending and the public perception is not good for the Constitutional Court, the one who interprets the basic state law.

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: As you said, there is a question of law, and there is a question of perception. I think we just need clarity. When you introduce a reform there are many aspects which need to be tested against the practice. The intention of the legislator was clear, he wanted to ensure the independence of the judges of the Constitutional Court. We are now seeing some difficulties in the implementation, we just need clarity. And as I said, since there are provisions that are in the Constitution, I think the Constitutional Court should simply look at it in an objective way and find a solution. This is a proof of the maturity of the institutions of Albania, let's say. 

Merita Haklaj: Do you think that this situation is created from within the court itself or is there a political interest that influences on this situation?

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: You know, I don't want to speculate, I am not a political commentator, it's not my role, I am just saying that we need to address it and it's good to address it, because it's important that the public citizens have trust in the institutions.

Merita Haklaj: I understand. So let’s talk about Mr. Xhafaj’s commission in the parliament. You were very careful with your messages to clearly understand that the needed reforms should not violate the justice institutions and the legal framework in order to properly function. There is a public engagement by Mr. Xhafaj that this is not about changing the Constitution but about legal amendments. And the other aspect that you highlighted is inclusiveness, considering the Assembly as the largest forum for political debate in the country.

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: You know, I don't judge people by intentions, but by facts. If you look at the text that established the Commission, and if you look at the way it's called, it's about consolidation.  If you also look at the transparency, because we have actually appointed some experts that follow the work of this Commission, for the moment I have no reason to be concerned. And I think the added value of the Commission is precisely to ensure that the discussions around the reforms that need to be introduced are inclusive. Now you mentioned the fact that the opposition decided not to engage. It's not for me to debate the reasons that led them not to engage, I respect them. I think it's a shame, and that's why I continue to insist that they should keep the door open, they should be as transparent as possible, so that the opposition has access to the information, knows what's going on, and they can comment it at least if they want to, if they fear that there are some dangers in the direction that the Commission is taking. What I said yesterday was more that the topics that the Commission is addressing are key in the negotiation process, you know, they are really part of the fundamentals cluster. So we need to ensure there is consistency between the engagements which have been taken in the context of the screening process. You know the screening process is when Albanian authorities went to Brussels and discussed what are the discrepancies between the EU law and the Albanian law. And it was not just the government, it was also representatives of the independent justice institutions, other agencies, so let's be clear, it's not just the government. So we want to ensure that those commitments are then reflected and respected, so to speak, also in the work of the Commission and reflected in the national action plan that they want to adopt. So the Commission becomes a vehicle for making the process more inclusive and also ensure that there is the necessary dynamism, and you know that the Parliament takes it seriously and has a clear calendar in order to adopt these reforms and does it in a way that allows the consultation of all the stakeholders, including civil society. Because acceleration should not go to the detriment of ensuring that the process is transparent and that citizens, Albanian citizens, can have a say, can comment, or at least they know what's going on.

Merita Haklaj: Have you received guarantees that the institutions of justice will not be violated by this commission? And on the other hand, we have the institutions of justice, like Mr. Kraja before, but also Mr. Dumani now have called the mandate of the Head of SPAK, the mandate of the prosecutor who follows the cases, insufficient. They asked to be like the judges of the Special Court.

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: I think that so far I don't see any signs of any kind of threat by the committee towards the independent justice institutions, and I think they are available to provide any input to the committee. In fact, to the Parliament they have already provided, least as far as SPAK is concerned, in their annual report, they suggest a number of improvements, let's say in the way in which they operate, both from a regulatory legislative viewpoint and also budgetary, etc. So I think there's already quite a lot of material in that respect. I'm not aware of this particular utterance by Mr. Dumani on the mandate, so I'm not in a position to comment on that.

Merita Haklaj: The idea is that SPAK leaders have asked for more time, like Kraja before, now also Dumani, because of the issues that are being examined their mandate should not be limited to three years, but this also means to touch the Constitution in this case.

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: Again, I don't think I'm in a position to comment this. I think it's important that whatever proposal comes from the different institutions is considered seriously by the Parliament and debated openly, and then we can see what are the pros and cons.

Merita Haklaj: Last, but not least, the media, Mr. Ambassador. We heard yesterday at the event you participated, the Speaker of the Assembly, Mrs. Elisa Spiropali, when she said that the media is more than ever involved in government activities. In fact, you too took part in an activity organised with central direction, as is the case with all activities of the government or the municipality. All this time that you have been in Albania, how many times have you seen a press conference of the Prime Minister, of the Speaker of the Assembly or the former Speaker of the Assembly or the Mayor with journalists?

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: I haven’t really attended press conferences of this kind. I've obviously attended some in which I was also present. Let me just take a step back, actually. The media sector is one of the sectors where consistently over the years the evaluation by the European Commission has been negative. No progress in any of the fields that were identified as problematic: transparency, media ownership, concentration of media ownership, the use of advertising resources, etc. The safety of journalists, of course, is a major concern. And I think this is where we should focus our attention. This is why I decided to lend my support to an initiative that we discussed with Professor Marku, the Dean of the School of Journalism. Because I think, whilst we all know there are a number of legislative measures that need to be taken in the context of the accession process and are part of the fundamentals chapter, I realised that the level of mistrust between the different actors was so high that unless you prepare the ground for this through a dialogue between the different stakeholders, you also explain what are the commitments that have been taken in view of the accession process, you will not achieve the results that are needed for Albania. So I really hope that this initiative will, first of all, help re-establish some degree of trust between the different actors and then allow to translate into Albanian legislation the EU standards in such a way that reflects also the specific problems that are existing in Albania.

Merita Haklaj: We are heading towards the elections and as you may have noticed now, the same thing happened in the election campaigns, there are no political confrontations or political debates. The majority refuses to debate with the opposition, there are cases where opposition elements also refuse. There is no inherent confrontation in political debates from the main political forces, and this is not due to the media, but due to the fault of politics.

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: Again, I'm not a political commentator, but indeed what you refer to is the high degree of polarisation that there is in the political scene here in Albania. We have repeatedly commented in terms of saying that we hope at least that the objective of joining the European Union remains one of national consensus and that at least on this topic, which is actually a very broad topic, if you think about it, acceding to the European Union means reforming, it's a state-building exercise. So if the two parties agree at least, the two sides, the majority and the opposition agree at least that this is the national objective and work together towards that objective that would already be a very good achievement.

Merita Haklaj: And finally, Mr. Ambassador, a message for Christmas, for the change of the years, for what awaits us in the coming year, but also your perspective on how realistic is the ambition of the Albanian government for membership in the European Union in 2027 or 2030, which is also mentioned by exponents of the European Union?

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: I hear that New Year is much more important in Albania than Christmas…

Merita Haklaj: This is from communism.

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: Yes, exactly, so let’s do something for the New Year and I think the New Year will be an exciting one. I really am confident that we will make good progress in 2025 and I'm totally, totally convinced that this is a real chance. It's not something that has been dangled as a little carrot, but then, you know, it will not materialise. And that's what I say, particularly to young people. This is real. This is real. And we need to focus all our resources towards making it happen and making it happen as soon as possible. I'm not going to comment dates, but what I can say is that from our side, we said we will do everything possible to conclude the negotiations, not necessarily joining because you know that then there's other steps, but conclude the negotiations even by 2027. If it's 2028, OK, it doesn't matter. But there's a concrete commitment from our side to support in every way Albania in order to achieve this objective. And I think it's important to have such an objective because it creates dynamism. What is also important is to ensure that the process is one that is participatory, that everybody feels that they know what's going on, they feel that they are participating in it and that they own it. It's not just a technocratic process. That's why I always say it's not just about adopting laws, adopting regulations. It's a transformation of a society. It's really bringing not just Albania as a state, but Albania as a country with its people into the European Union. I think they have a place there. I'm totally convinced.

Merita Haklaj:  34 years ago, we said, let's make Albania as the rest of Europe, Mr. Ambassador.

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: Absolutely, absolutely. That's also my motto now. Thank you.

Merita Haklaj: Thank you very much for the interview, Mr. Ambassador, and Happy Holidays.

Ambassador Silvio Gonzato: Thank you for having me.